What kicked off development of WarioWare D.I.Y.? Abe-san, would you start us off?

Sure. To tell you the truth, I’d been thinking about (the Japanese original name of) the title, ”WarioWare D.I.Y.” for quite some time. So I looked for the old files, and I found text dated September 2003.

September 2003? That’s five and a half years ago.

Yeah. After we made WarioWare, Inc.¹...

I asked you to make a GameCube version of WarioWare, Inc. at top speed.

We made WarioWare, Inc.² in six months. The (original Japanese name of the) name WarioWare D.I.Y. is found in text written about the time development of that game finished.

So why is it called WarioWare D.I.Y.?

When we were working on WarioWare, Inc., making the microgames was lots of fun. Even though it was work.

Even though it was work? (laughs)

I mean it was so much fun that it was hard to imagine it was work at all. (laughs) Normally in game development, the staff is divided into areas of expertise.

Generally, a designer draws the images, people exclusively in charge of sound work on the music and sound effects, and programmers write the program.

But for WarioWare, Inc., one person drew the images and wrote the program for each microgame. On fast days, I was making one game a day.

If you hadn’t worked at that pace, you wouldn’t have been able to complete so many microgames in time for the release.

I was trying to show the microgames I had made to the other staff members. Beforehand, I would get all excited. Seeing everyone’s reaction was really fun.

I see. So you thought you would like gamers to experience that enjoyment?

Exactly. A while ago, some software was out for making RPGs and shooting games. I remember it was fun when I tried it. But I don’t think I ever completed anything.

You couldn’t finish making a whole game.

It takes quite a long time to complete one game, and somewhere along the way I would quit. I used to write my own manga. I would always give up part of the way through a long story, but I could do a short comic strip.

You get tired of things easily.

Yeah. (laughs)

I can see the connection to WarioWare. It looks like people with a short attention span made it. (laughs)

Nonetheless, the series has continued for quite some time. (laughs)

(laughs)

But I never get tired of WarioWare. Development of D.I.Y. kicked off when I thought that since microgames only last a few seconds, gamers could experience the fun of easily creating microgames themselves, like drawing comic strips.

What was written in the text from five and a half years ago?

At the time, I was still writing it as “Iris.”

Hm?

…

Iris?

Uh, yeah.

You didn’t even hesitate to say that! (laughs)

Yeah. (laughs)

The “Iris” Abe-san mentioned isn’t widely known, so I will explain. Iris was the codename of a next-generation device we were exploring to succeed the Game Boy Advance—in other words, before development of the Nintendo DS. Eventually, it became a two-screen device with the codename Nitro, which went out into the world as the Nintendo DS. So, broadly speaking, Iris was the foundation for the Nintendo DS. You might say that Abe-san carried out his original objectives across five and a half years.

That’s right. What I wrote down then was a plan for the Iris. It said, “Software for making microgames yourself using the WarioWare system. At first it just looks like a way to make games via small changes, but in the end…”

It “looks like” that? (laughs)

That’s important. (laughs) It said, “A game creation tool allowing eventual creation of rather substantial content. But only within the restrictions of microgames and only about five seconds long, so it’s all very practicable.”

Does the current product differ from what you wrote back then?

The basic concept doesn’t.

You never wavered even once?

No. We never strayed from that.

Why did it take five and a half years?

At first I thought we could make it for the Iris, but I felt like it was somehow missing something, and time flew by. While that was going on, plans for the Nintendo DS arose. You can easily draw pictures with the stylus, so it was perfect. But creating microgames yourself isn’t really that easy, and I had other games to make myself, so it got put on hold. Then, when we were making WarioWare: Smooth Moves³, we were discussing the functions of the Wii console and I heard that with WiiConnect24, you could exchange data.

In other words, you might be able to create something allowing players to enjoy adding games, like a daily microgame.

Right.

When various departments were gathering to discuss the functions of the Wii console, you represented the Software Planning and Development Department. Your experience at that time had an influence on the structure of WarioWare D.I.Y.

Yes. I thought there was a great affinity between Wii and Nintendo DS. You can make something on the Nintendo DS, and then put it into your Wii console to play it. So I started thinking that people who make games could make them on Nintendo DS, and people who are mainly interested in playing games could do so on Wii.

Then when work on Smooth Moves finished, you started development of D.I.Y.

Yes.

Hatakeyama-san, could you please introduce yourself and tell us how you came to be involved with this project?

I’m Hatakeyama. I’m in Production Group 1 of the Software Planning and Development Department with Abe-san. I joined the company in 2006 and the first project I worked on was the Nintendo DS Digital TV Tuner.⁴ When development of that finished and I was wondering what I would work on next, Abe-san came back from development of Smooth Moves.

He said I “came back” because for the final development stages of Smooth Moves I was working over at Intelligent Systems.

When he came back, his seat was right behind mine.

You got involved because you sat near him. (laughs)

(laughs)

I don’t think that was the only reason, though. (laughs) When you sit next to someone, you chat back and forth. When I heard a little about this project, I thought it sounded really interesting. When I was in secondary school I was absorbed in game creation software and made games like shooting games—so much so that I eventually joined Nintendo.

That’s the same as Abe-san! (laughs)

But I’d make about one-third of one stage and…

And then quit.

Yeah.

You even give up quickly like Abe-san! (laughs)

(laughs)

It takes a lot of work to finish a game. Making multiple stages was unthinkable, so I quit. Before that, I was absorbed in Mario Paint.⁵ When I was in primary school.

You drew pictures with a mouse.

Yes. I wasn’t the type to draw pictures, but for some reason I drew a lot with Mario Paint. I was doing it on the television, and my parents would watch. At the time, I was always playing video games. When I played games like RPGs, they would make disapproving facial expressions. But when I drew with Mario Paint, they would say, “Wow! That’s really good!”

(laughs)

They said maybe I had artistic talent. (laughs) So even if I did Mario Paint until late at night, they wouldn’t get mad.

That’s good. (laughs)

Since I had that background, when I heard we were going to make WarioWare game creation software, I thought it would be great. It has creative elements like drawing pictures and making music, so parents won’t make disapproving faces. What’s more, you just have to make short microgames. (laughs)

Even people with short attention spans can do it. (laughs)

(laughs) Then one day Abe-san asked if I would like to join him, and I said yes.

I see. You got just what you wanted. That brings us to Intelligent Systems’ Sugioka-san, who previously appeared in the session of “Iwata Asks” about WarioWare: Snapped!⁶ How did you become involved, Sugioka-san?

I had heard that after development of Smooth Moves ended, Abe-san was trying to do something new.

You heard it through the grapevine?

Yes. But at the time I was developing the Korean version of WarioWare: Touched!⁷ Then, about the time work on that ended, Abe-san came and talked to me.

Did he say, “This is what I want to make. How about it?” and invite you to come on board?

Yeah.

What did you think when you first heard about it?

I thought it was an interesting project. But if we really did make it, I would have to think about all the little details, and I wasn’t sure it could be done.

Abe-san had all these rosy visions in his head, but could they be made a reality?

Exactly.

So Sugioka-san and I, just the two of us, decided to begin with some experiments. We decided to base the drawing part on Mario Paint, and we thought for making music we could do something like lining up music notes. Making the rules of play, though, was the hardest part.

It was nice that you had a model in Mario Paint for drawing pictures and making music, but when it came to what kind of rules the game should have, you didn’t have a previous model, so you needed to try some things out.

Yeah. We decided to call the characters and items that appeared “objects.” We made it so you could make them move, but it was a game, so we needed to make it interactive and easily approachable. We went through a lot of trial and error devising that. Development took a little more than two years, but half of that, about one year, was spent figuring that out.

You were going through a long tunnel. What were you thinking during that time, Sugioka-san?

I was wondering what we could do so the customers in general could easily make microgames. To do that, we decided to divide it up into three large parts. First were the “objects” that Abe-san mentioned. Then there was “background,” which didn’t move, and “sound.” To make these, you would need tools for drawing pictures and creating sound.

So you tackled making a tool for creating the components of microgames.

Yes. But even though we had Mario Paint as a guide, the user interface for the Nintendo DS is quite different, so we went through a process of repeated trial and error, making corrections along the way.

And then it became possible to draw objects and background, and to create sounds. But those components existed separately.

That’s right. To put those components together into one game, we needed to work on construction. So we made something like a test model. When we gave that to one of our designers, he made a microgame in just a few hours. When we saw that, we thought, “This’ll work!” (laughs) After that, we plowed ahead.

Development sped up.

The team was excited. A designer had made it, so we were amazed. We could understand if it had been a programmer. He would know special techniques and be good at thinking things through logically. We were impressed that even a designer could create such a decent game. Then we made about ten microgames. Even at that stage, we thought we would be able to create a satisfying product. Of course, we did add a variety of elements after that, but we had realised it would work and it felt like there was light at the end of the tunnel.

The tool that the designer first used to make a microgame was, compared to the final product, rather meagre.

That’s right.

Even so, he could do quite a lot straight away?

Yes. There wasn’t much you could do. But precisely because there was little you could do, you could put a game together like a puzzle, leading to the surprising discovery of just how much could be accomplished.

So even if you couldn’t do much, if you used multiple functions together, you could accomplish quite a lot. But games make use of quite a wide variety of movements, so I imagine you wanted to start throwing in all kinds of stuff.

We kept ourselves down to the functions that were absolutely necessary. Then, when we actually made games, we could apply them in a variety of patterns.

So rather than put in a bunch of functions at the start and then get rid of the ones that were unnecessary, you confirmed the many ways you could enjoy just a few functions, and added more that you felt were absolutely necessary. At times like that you want to throw in all kinds of stuff. I’m surprised at how well you controlled yourselves.

If lots of buttons for different functions were lined up, you would be unsure of which one to choose.

So we decided to go for six buttons with different functions. To meet that number, we gave precedence to the most important functions.

For example, suppose you want to have Mario jump up and down in the same spot. To have him jump, you use the “Boing !” function. When you do, he’ll jump all around the screen like a frog. So you narrow the movement field so he jumps up and down in the same spot.

By decreasing the area for the movement, you can make him jump vertically.

All you have to do is specify the range for jumping with the stylus.

But, Hatakeyama-san, didn’t you want to throw in all kinds of stuff? Didn’t you actually say, “Six isn’t enough!” (laughs)

Actually, I did! (laughs) For one thing, I didn’t have much experience making video games.

It’s normal to think it would be great if you could do this, that and every other thing.

A lot of the time I would say to Abe-san, “I want to put in this kind of action,” and he would say, “You can do that by combining this and that other function.” Then he would hit me with a killer line that always struck me down…

A killer line?

He’d say, “These games will only last a few seconds.” (laughs)

Ah ha ha! (laughs) Yes, microgames do only last a few seconds.

Even if you could do something really fancy, the game will be over in just a few seconds.

That’s a convenient rationalisation, but I sort of understand. You have a short attention span and gave up on making a shooting game halfway through, but you thought you could do it with a game like this.

That’s right. Short microgames last about four seconds, long ones, about eight.

They’re over in a flash.

But we wanted the user to be able to make a wide variety of microgames. So we experimented to see if we could use D.I.Y. to make existing games.

You mean whether or not you could re-create with D.I.Y. the microgames of WarioWare: Touched!?

Right. We tried to recreate the first stage of Touched!, which you can play simply by touching the screen. Sometimes we could do it, sometimes we couldn’t, but when we couldn’t, we made repeated adjustments towards being able to.

In the end, how many were you able to recreate?

Almost 100%.

It was a little difficult for ones with random elements, but we could recreate most of them.

Because so much was possible with it, I suppose debugging was difficult.

It was. This time, first we got the part for making games firmly established, then proceeded relatively early on with the debugging. Then the debuggers were making all kinds of games…

The debuggers became workmen on the microgames? (laughs)

Well, creating microgames was part of their work as debuggers, but they went above and beyond the call of duty, mastering all sorts of advanced techniques.

They got to where they could make some incredible stuff to make our developers think they had been outdone. (laughs)

Not a single one was a programmer, though.

On one occasion, a debugger said to me, “Isn’t it a problem you can’t do this action?” I said, “Well, let’s put that on hold because technologically it’s difficult.” Then a little while later he came back and said, “I did it by putting this and this together.”

What? Who’s the real programmer?! (laughs)

(laughs)

So some of the actual microgames made by the debugging team are actually in D.I.Y. And their names appear in the staff credits.

Game designer-slash-debugger. (laughs)

That’s amazing. (laughs) Nothing like that has ever happened before.

I understood then how much could be done even by non-developers.

But the debuggers also told us, “Now we know how you game developers feel.”

We evaluated their microgames, saying stuff like, “Maybe you should fix this in consideration of the players.” (laughs)

Isn’t that sort of backwards? (laughs)

(laughs)

The debuggers who received such advice said that was exactly the kind of thing they had been telling us all along! (laughs)

Maybe now that this game has caused the debuggers to understand how you developers feel they will be a little nicer to you. (laughs) Speaking of debugging, Nintendo caused you a bit of trouble this time, right, Sugioka-san?

You mean the NAND card, which we used for the first time with this product. (laughs)

A NAND card is a new type of Nintendo DS Game Card with flash memory for large volumes, called NAND memory. Compared to the Nintendo DS Game Card used with normal Nintendo DS games, you can rewrite and save large volumes of data, and erase or rewrite data much faster. If I hadn’t proposed to Abe-san that they use NAND cards, this game would probably have come out a little sooner.

I spoke with our hardware staff right after I received your advice. I told them the schedule and that you wanted to use NAND cards, and they said, “No, it can’t be done.” The schedule was a little too tight.

Nonetheless, you still wanted to do it.

That’s because rewriting data is so unbelievably fast with an NAND card. We were originally planning to use the same Nintendo DS Game Card as with Band Brothers DX⁸, but with that it would have taken time to save.

It also possessed the merit of increasing the number of microgames that could be saved. You can save up to 90 games.

Right. I knew how nicely it would work with the game, so part of the way through development I suggested using the NAND card, which was nearly complete. But since this type of memory was being used for the first time with game software, unexplainable problems occurred.

There wasn’t any problem when we were working on the development tools, but as we moved onto the mass-production model, when we used that memory, it would just suddenly stop.

Sugioka-san eventually figured out the cause.

In the end, we put Sugioka-san in charge of the hardware debugging for the NAND card. Explaining problems that don’t reappear with the development tools makes for quite difficult debugging. Sugioka-san, if you hadn’t gone deep into it and pinpointed the problem, we still might not have an idea of when it could go on sale. Good work.

No, when I think about future projects, I’m glad we used the NAND card.

Now I’m going to ask something a little mischievous. Did you ever think there might not be that many people out there who really want to make video games?

Absolutely. Early on, I said at first it would just look like a way to make games via small changes, but I had to consider various ways to achieve that. For example, you can call up one of the microgames included and change an element of it however you like.

You can even easily change Mario to Luigi.

When you make your own game, you can call up whichever data you like from one of the included microgames and use that. That way, even if you’re no good at drawing, you can easily make your own game. What’s more, everything about how that microgame was made is available for you to look at as reference.

The secrets behind the included microgames are all revealed. You don’t just want people to play the microgames—the various techniques for making games are available and serve as materials.

When it came to choosing which microgames to include, we included as much variation as possible so they could be used as materials for making new games.

How many microgames are included?

Ninety.

That’s about half when compared to other WarioWare games..

But if you connect to the Internet, you can download new microgames distributed by Nintendo, so even if you don’t make a single microgame, you’ll have plenty to play.

In other words, you can download lots of microgames made by people who are good at making them.

But making a fun game can be rather challenging.

It takes a certain sense.

I suppose it does.

The microgames made by people you know, like your friends and family members, may be fun, but much of the time games made by people you don’t know aren’t as much fun.

So first we thought of having it so you could exchange microgames with your friends via Friend Codes.

Then we decided to hold regular contests. We plan to judge them and then distribute the winning works. Of course, we can’t distribute anything offensive or infringing on copyrights, though.

How will the judging be carried out?

Real people will judge, and then we’ll distribute the chosen works.

Will you be a judge?

Yes. Of course, I‘ll have helpers, but…

I bet it’ll be really hard. (laughs)

Probably. (laughs) But Sugioka-san and I are coming up with an efficient way to do it, and each game will only take four to eight seconds to look at, which, compared to other games, won’t be so bad.

Imagine having to judge 1,000 RPGs! (laughs)

RPGs would probably take about three years. (laughs)

(laughs)

In addition, each week we plan to distribute two microgames that we made, and we’re thinking about a category called “Big Name Games” consisting of microgames you can download that were created by well-known people. We’ve asked you to make one, right, Iwata-san?

… (thinking) I wonder if I can find the time…

And, of course, we’ve asked Shigeru Miyamoto. Here’s one that Yoshio Sakamoto made. Try it out. The theme is Metroid.

Sakamoto-san already made his? (playing the microgame) … Heh heh heh! (laughs) Hearing you talk today, I realise you had to clear some hurdles. Hatakeyama-san, earlier you mentioned something that made me worry.

I did?

You said it takes a certain sense. You want me to make a game, but then heap on the pressure.

(laughs)

Setting that aside… You can also read comic strips with this product, right?

I wanted people to play D.I.Y. every day. Like reading comic strips in the daily newspaper. So I asked five professional manga artists to contribute, and now you can read new works by five authors every day when you play.

And players can draw their own comic strips.

Not just comic strips, but you can also write your own fairly long songs.

You can draw comic strips, but some people may not be good at that. I’m actually not very good at drawing, but you can use stamps to make it easier.

So, even if you can’t draw, you can easily make a story by, for example, just lining up microgame characters as if they’re having a conversation, put in some speech balloon stamps, and then add words. And if you download WarioWare D.I.Y. Showcase⁹, distributed via WiiWare, everyone in your family can see your content on their big TV screen or listen to the songs you made with big speakers.

I see. Err, is a microgame by Sugioka-san in it?

No, I was too busy with my programming work.

What with the NAND card incident and everything, I guess you didn’t have time. Were you jealous of how much fun everyone else was having?

Terribly. But I really didn’t have time.

Sorry about that. Release your frustration after it goes on sale.

Okay. Secretly.

We’ll be waiting for your contest entry! (laughs)

But what if we don’t know it’s his and really tear it apart during judging? (laughs)

(laughs)

Lastly, is there anything you would like to say to the fans? Sugioka-san?

Earlier, Hatakeyama-san mentioned how he used to really be into Mario Paint.

Even if he played until late at night, his parents didn’t get mad.

When I asked staff members around me about this, a lot of them said that Mario Paint was the game that taught them the joy of making games. Especially people in their early twenties.

Everyone around me had it. (laughs)

(laughs)

Did Mario Paint make you who you are today?

Without a doubt. I remember that time very clearly.

WarioWare D.I.Y. may be like that, too.

I think so.

With Mario Paint, you could only create animation, but this time you can make video games.

Of a maximum length of eight seconds. (laughs)

But being able to make a game is important. If that results in some new game developers…

Right, right. WarioWare D.I.Y. could change someone’s life. That’s how big my expectations are for it.

It’s a life-changing game. That’s quite a grand statement! (laughs)

(laughs)

Before Mario Paint, there was Family BASIC.¹⁰ The staff member in charge of sound this time says that was what awakened him to game music.

Family BASIC was released about 25 years ago for the Famicom and had its own keyboard. I suppose a lot of people also became aware of game development because of that.

One of the members of the sound team for WarioWare D.I.Y. said he input a sample Chopin song with that and put the same song into this game. I’d be happy if this tool awakens latent talent within its users.

Wake up, talent! Okay, Hatakeyama-san?

I hope it’s the kind of software that sticks with players for years to come. It was originally conceived as software for making games, but there’s a lot to play in WarioWare D.I.Y., so even if someone doesn’t make microgames, there’s plenty there to enjoy just playing.

Even if you’re not interested in making games, if there are people around you who do make games, you can reap the benefits. And through contest distribution you may experience fun games you never imagined before.

That’s right. It would be nice if you enjoy it as a new WarioWare game. But even if you’re not interested in making games, I hope you’ll at least give making one a bit of a shot.

And then, hopefully, you’ll wake up one day and find that you’re someone who can make video games.

That’s absolutely right. Then it’ll be software that you can play for years into the future.

All right, Abe-san?

If I were a primary school pupil today, this is what I would want more than anything.

You made what you would want for yourself.

With games until now, the games I’ve worked on, I’ve played them exhaustively during development. I buy them when they go on sale, but then I don’t play them that much.

To you, you worked on them, so you’ll buy them, but they’re more of a keepsake than something to play.

I show them to people, but that’s about all. This time I really want it for myself.

So you’re looking forward to the release. (laughs)

Absolutely! (laughs) But while this game allows you to make games, some people may not know how to get started. When that happens, they should think about showing what they make to people close to them.

They should imagine who will see it. Friends and family, for example.

Speaking from my own experience, I got a game on my birthday.

A microgame for a birthday present! (laughs)

The staff made it for me. When you touch the candle on the screen with the stylus, a cake appears and the message “Congratulations! ” appears.

There was sound, too.

Yeah! It sang “Happy birthday” to me! (laughs)

I bet you liked that.

I was moved. (laughs) I think it could be fun to create a microgame for a particular person like that. Or maybe there’s a cup of tea sitting in front of you, so you make a game about drinking tea. Or you could use your own experiences for something like a diary. If you try turning that into a game, you’ll be able to make all kinds of stuff. Then you can unabashedly have lots of people try what you’ve made.

It seems like your lives making video games began with Family BASIC or Mario Paint or some other kind of software, but I began making video games with a programmable calculator. It could only display numbers, but I worked hard to finally get one, used it to make games, and enjoyed playing them together with my friends in high school.

As someone with that kind of experience, I’m very jealous of people today. I mean, something like D.I.Y. will be on the shelves and people will be able to make as much as they want.

Of course, even if you don’t make any games you can enjoy it, but I myself feel quite strongly that the joy of making games is deeper than the joy of playing them, so I hope WarioWare D.I.Y. will increase the number of people who awaken to that idea, even if only by one person.

I’m hoping for that, too. So I think it would be great if video game technical schools and educational institutions use it for their classes.

(laughs)

Shall we use D.I.Y. at the Nintendo Game Seminar¹¹? (laughs)

Maybe we can use it to judge.

Oh, you’re going to judge, huh?

You can see people’s talents.

Yeah, you’ll be able to see them well. (laughs)

Oh, then maybe with hiring next year…

You’re joking, right?

Yes. (bluntly)

(laughs)