I’d like to ask something first, if I may.

Of course, go ahead.

I was wondering why this session of ‘Iwata Asks’ is taking place, given that Jam with the Band is a title for the Nintendo DS^*.

This version of Jam with the Band uses new systems that haven’t been seen in music games up to now. I didn’t think we could communicate these new systems in a 15-30 second TV commercial, so I thought it would be better to introduce points of these systems to everyone by talking directly to three people who were responsible for their development. It’s the first time we’ve done this for a Nintendo DS title!

I also have an interesting personal connection with this software…

Anyway, please begin by introducing yourselves.

I’m Kitamura from Software Development & Design Department. I was the art director on Daigasso! Band Brothers¹, and I’m the director on this title. I’m only the director in name, though.

In name?

Our team wasn’t divided into groups like ‘designers’ or ‘programmers’. Every staff member contributed ideas that went into the making of this title.

But people usually say that’s a terrible way to get things done! (laughs) Many people say that a majority-rule based system often functions badly in the creative world, and that the best way to complete a project is for one person with a clear vision to act as a leader for the staff to follow and unite behind. Why did you choose to take the opposite approach?

Every staff member had an image of what the completed Jam with the Band would look like. Moreover, this image was something we all shared from the very first step of the development process. As a result of this, we thought we could make a more interesting software title if we all gathered together and shared ideas.

I got the impression that everyone in the team was very connected with each other, and it might have something to do with what you have just explained. Okay, now it’s your turn, Kitahara-san.

I’m Kitahara from Software Development & Design Department. I joined the Band Brothers development project when it was originally planned for the Game Boy Advance during the second half of the entire development process. I was a programmer on Band Brothers, and I’m the program director for this title. I examine the specifications, and consider whether it would be possible to implement them in the software. I also communicate the specifications to the other programmers, so I have mainly liaison duties.

We’ll talk some more about the Game Boy version later on. Now, our final introduction please, Kyuma-san.

I’m Kyuma from Software Planning & Development Department. I was appointed to be sound director on the project team. My main tasks involve assembling the music data and giving my opinions on how we can make the software easier to use from an audio point of view.

You joined this company at the same time, didn’t you, Kyuma-san and Kitahara-san? Kitahara-san touched on a fraction of this game’s history in his previous comment, but planning for Band Brothers actually started during the Game Boy Color² era. How long have you been involved with Band Brothers, Kitamura-san?

I started about 10 years ago, back when I was young and sprightly. (laughs)

(laughs) From back when it was originally called Game Boy Music, Band Brothers came a long way and went through many changes before it saw the light of day. Could you tell us a little bit of the Band Brothers history, before it was released onto the world?

I’ll be talking for an hour or two if I start telling that story – and I still won’t be finished! (laughs) The story really is that long, and it’s full of twists and turns, so I’ll give you a summary. It all started when I drew a new character.

You’re talking about Barbara, the main character, right? Your main job originally was designing instruction manuals and packaging (artwork designs), wasn’t it, Kitamura-san?

Yes. I came up with Barbara during my free time at work. After I designed her though, I was stuck in a period where I kept wondering if someone was going to use her in a game. I had to just sit tight and wait to be contacted.

And no-one wanted to use Barbara in a game?

That’s right, so I thought: “If no-one else will use her in a game, we might as well make a game ourselves”. Around that time, a new sound chip that could replicate natural instrument sounds really well had been developed, and we were asked if we would be able to make some software that utilised the chip…

The music in the Game Boy Color era was all plinky-plonk electronic music, wasn’t it? So that was when you started developing Band Brothers’s predecessor, Game Boy Music.

But while we were making slow progress with that, the Game Boy Advance³ was developed, and we realised that it would offer us better sound quality.

You could now produce natural sounds without having to borrow a special sound chip. However, the development of Game Boy Music had to be abandoned just before its completion.

We had various problems, but the main issue was the fact that for Jam Sessions (to play together in a group), every user had to buy their own copy of the software.

Playing in the Jam Sessions is a lot of fun, and I really liked watching when multiple players were doing it, but the fact you couldn’t enjoy the Jam Sessions without every user buying a copy of the game made things very awkward. But even though development was cancelled, you didn’t give up on the project, did you?

No, I didn’t. I still had my main job as a designer, and although I once gave up the project in tears, I never stopped thinking that I wanted everyone to enjoy Jam Sessions together, whatever it took.

And you weren’t the only one who felt that way. At the beginning of 2004, the year the Nintendo DS was released, I had the opportunity to meet Nintendo developers individually. I could feel how strongly all those who had worked on Game Boy Music shared the desire to release the software. Another incident that had occurred before development was cancelled also left a deep impression on me. I remember watching a video of staff members playing the game during its development. After they’d finished playing a song, they would all celebrate by high-fiving each other.

People don’t normally high-five each other after playing a game, do they?

No, indeed. After witnessing that, I really felt: “There’s something special about this software”. It was around the time that we’d started developing software for the Nintendo DS. That’s when we realised that, using the wireless communications feature of the Nintendo DS, users could play Jam Sessions together with only one copy of the software. At a stroke, the arrival of the Nintendo DS had solved what had seemed like an insurmountable hurdle on the Game Boy Advance. As a result, we hastily reassembled the project team.

But while you reassembled our project team, Iwata-san, you also imposed tough conditions on us. You said: “If you cannot get the software ready to be a Nintendo DS launch title, I am dissolving the team.”

It was a project that had lost its way repeatedly ever since its origins in the Game Boy Color era. I imposed that condition because I didn’t want to allow enough time for it to lose its way again. At first, everyone was worried about the time restrictions, but as soon as the Jam Session feature started working, the atmosphere within the team completely changed. I remember that everyone was playing Jam Sessions whenever they had a minute to spare.

We always really wanted to play Jam Sessions, but there was no time left for development. We were torn, but in the end we inevitably got together and played, every evening.

And even though there was no time left for development, I made a couple of new requests regarding the content of the software, didn’t I?

That was a shock!

The door to the development room suddenly opened…

We said, “Iwata-san just marched in,” (laughs) “And he wants us to add a Studio mode…”

There were some people who said to me: “I can’t read music, so adding a mode like that’ll be no good for me.”

People… like me.

(laughter)

Iwata-san persuaded us, saying: “Even if there’s only one person in a class that can make music, their classmates would be really happy to receive a song that they wrote”.

But when we made a prototype version and showed it to you, Iwata-san, you said: “That’s no good”. It was devastating.

While we were trying out various things, Iwata-san was writing a list of specifications himself.

It’s the only list of specifications I’ve written since I became Company President. I felt I had a lot of responsibility as well, after announcing: “I’m cancelling development unless this software is a Nintendo DS launch title”, so I got involved rather inadvertently.

You really helped us out at that time. Your specifications were easy to understand, and we’ve carried them over to this latest software, Jam with the Band.

I’m really glad that we added the Studio mode.

You said you couldn’t read music, Kitamura-san, but by the latter stages of the project you were buying commercial sheet music and effortlessly making songs.

After the software was released, a number of Band Brothers “artists” have appeared, and we’ve seen people writing on their blogs: “I’ve made this song - everyone should listen to it!”.

Several problems did become apparent as well, however.

Only eight songs you’d made could be saved in Studio mode, so there were a lot of calls for us to make it possible to save more songs.

We also released an “Extra Song Game Cartridge”⁴, but we soon realised that users’ musical tastes vary greatly. Some people felt that the songs leaned too much towards one genre or another. So when we started talking about making the next game, I thought: “This time we can create something that satisfies every user”, an idea which made me really happy.

Several new features have been added to this version of Jam with the Band, such as Voice Analysis and the ability to download songs. You just said that you were really happy to be making this game, Kitamura-san, but aren’t there normally many difficulties involved with the development process?

I really enjoyed the development process, to the extent that I wouldn’t even call it work.

My main job was to create the song data, which is very hard work. As soon as I’d made the data, however, all the staff snapped up the new songs, and started playing them immediately. I really felt all my hard work was being rewarded when I witnessed those scenes.

Whenever a new song was created, we’d say: “Let’s all play-test this one together!”, and we’d have a Jam Session. “Play-testing” was just the official name for it, though… (laughs)

It really cheered us up whenever a member of staff liked one of the new songs.

I don’t know if that’s work or play you’re talking about there! (laughs) But it’s a sign of how totally immersed you were in the software when you were making it. By the way, the new Jam with the Band has a feature that allows you to download up to 100^* song scores. There were various challenges associated with the development of the song download feature, though, weren’t there?

Yes, there were. No one can put songs that were protected by copyright onto Internet servers without first going through the necessary procedures. Since we’d already worked so hard to develop the Studio feature, though, we wanted to establish a sharing system that would allow it to support copyrighted songs as well. We thought that unless we developed a system whereby users didn’t have to pay for each song individually, not many people would use this feature.

How did you solve the copyright issues?

We made several visits to JASRAC⁵, and explained to them what we at Nintendo wanted to do. That is, to make as many Japanese pop and anime theme songs as possible available for download to the users. They responded to this request very positively, and as a result we were able to explain to them the system in which these songs would be loaded onto the Nintendo server in advance, ready for people to download and play on their Nintendo DS^*.

It’s different to downloading a song you like onto your computer or mobile phone then, isn’t it?

Because the songs you download aren’t actually sung or performed, but instead are used as sound sources in the game, we only have to pay royalties to the songwriters and lyricists. It was therefore decided that Nintendo would pay the royalties incurred by up to 100 songs, based on the actual download data. As such, we were able to implement a system where a user can freely and effortlessly download up to 100 of their favourite songs.

A song that’s been downloaded cannot be deleted, can it?

If a user were able to delete songs, then they’d be able to download as many as they like.

If we implemented an unlimited download system, the royalty payments we’d have to make would become a big problem.

But don’t users ever think: “I didn’t actually want this song” after downloading it?

It should be alright, because we’ve implemented a ‘trial listen’ system. We’ve made it so that a user can only download songs they’ve heard for themselves and decided that they like. There is also a ‘Rate’ feature, so that users can check a song’s rating by the other players before downloading it.

There will initially be around 200 songs available for download this time. With the user able to download up to 100^* songs, I’m sure there’ll be some who think: “Huh!? Only 200!?”

That is something we’d like to ask ‘Band Brothers artists‘ all over the country to help us out with. These are the people who uploaded songs they’d made using the previous version of the software onto their blogs and other sites. This time, songs can be submitted onto the Nintendo server, so we hope it will become an outlet for songs.

So this means that even songs that become big hits after Jam with the Band has been released can be enjoyed using the software.

Every song that is managed by JASRAC⁶ can be uploaded onto the server^*, so users should be able to find songs that they like.

If a large number of songs are submitted onto the server, won’t that mean that some of them will be of rather questionable quality?

Barbara will be judging the songs, so it’ll be fine. (laughs)

Mentioning Barbara like that shows how determined you are to talk about the game! (laughs) Actually, whenever a JASRAC song is submitted onto the server, it is necessary to enter a JASRAC registration number^*. We’ve installed a feature so that if this number is entered incorrectly, or if the song doesn’t have the right number of instruments or is too short, the song is automatically rejected. As such, it is possible that a song a user has put a lot of time and effort into could be rejected like this, so we’d like all the users to read the ‘Submit’ section of the Instruction Booklet before submitting a song.

Also, only songs that have been compared to the original by an expert will be allowed onto the download server, and only after they’ve passed this check.

So only songs that have reached a certain standard can be downloaded and enjoyed.

There are also two ways of submitting songs. Users who are able to use Nintendo WFC can submit their songs from home. Alternatively, songs can be easily submitted using ‘DS Stations’ in shops^*.

Downloading can also be done at home or in shops. Users are also able to see how many times each song has been downloaded.

So we’re able to satisfy all the ‘Band Brothers artists‘ who are thinking “I want the songs I make to be enjoyed by lots of people”, without infringing on the rights of the songs’ copyright holders. In the sense that it doesn’t place a burden on the users either, it really is a unique and very interesting system.

In this version of Jam with the Band, we’ve added a new ‘Sing’ mode. We first got this idea when wondering if there weren’t any other uses, apart from the playing the instruments, for the sheet music in Jam with the Band. I think that everyone’s sung in the past, even people who’ve never played a musical instrument.

There’s a Voice Analysis feature as well, isn’t there?

The first thing we did was conduct a series of experiments, using a program to check singing voices, to see what components of the voice could be used for analysis. We were able to check a voice’s pitch and rhythm as a result, and as we were thinking how to make the best use of these analytical tools, our thoughts turned to karaoke.

When we thought about people’s goals at karaoke, we came to the conclusion that people want to get excited, to sing well and to seem attractive... I think that, especially if it’s a social event or a kind of date, you want to sing your best song and you want everyone to think that you’re a great singer. That’s why we hope that people will use the Voice Analysis feature to find a song they’re compatible with before going to karaoke and trying out the real thing in front of that important person. (laughs)

We even called it ‘hotness rating’ instead of ‘compatibility’ during development. I suppose you could say our motives were not entirely innocent…

(laughter)

You shut yourself up in a sound booth and took turns to sing, didn’t you?

Once I went into the booth and didn’t come back to my seat for 30 minutes.

I think that work was officially called ‘sampling’, but it was sampling work in name alone.

This sound booth sounds more like a karaoke box to me! This project seems to have involved a lot of work that was work ‘in name alone’. By the way, what did the Voice Analysis feature tell you about your singing style?

My style was ‘Moody Ballad’, because my voice is quite low.

Mine was R&B.

(she looks a little embarrassed) Mine was…Bubblegum Pop.

(laughter)

Just out of curiosity, Bubblegum Pop doesn’t always mean you’re a good singer, does it?

I’m like one of those manufactured pop stars in the sense that I’m always out of tune.

(laughter)

There are several new ideas you added to this new Jam with the Band compared to the last one, aren’t there?

Yes. Radio mode is one such idea. It’s a mode that allows users to use their Nintendo DS like a radio and listen to the built in songs alongside Barbara the DJ. Furthermore, by using Wi-Fi connection, users can listen to songs stored on the Nintendo server. The user doesn’t have to press any buttons or anything; they can just leave the Nintendo DS on a table.

Just like a real radio then.

Because it’s a radio, users can listen to songs as many times as they like for free. Because they are treated as ‘streaming transmissions’ by JASRAC, the kind of song that’s on the Nintendo server can be listened to freely.

And if there’s a certain song you like, you can download it, can’t you?

The name of the song that’s playing is displayed on the Nintendo DS screen, which is really handy if you hear a song you like and want to download it. It makes me happy to think that just by listening to Radio mode, people can discover music they like and think: “Wow, I didn’t know they had songs like this!” Another new feature is the ability to play Jam Sessions through your TV speakers. I always thought it would be fun to have really loud Jam Sessions, and when I discussed this with Iwata-san…

I said: “Why don’t we create a system where the user could use their Wii to play Jam Sessions through their TV?”

That’s right, and when we tried creating a Wii Channel called the ‘Jam with the Band Live Channel’, we realised that it offered a completely different level of intensity to the Nintendo DS speakers. The sound was powered up, and you really felt a response from the instruments. As a result, we pretty much played Jam Sessions through the TV every day during the latter stages of development.

Really! So you spent this entire project playing Jam Sessions as well?

Oh no, we were doing ‘Live Channel Operational Testing’. That was the official name, I think…

Another official name! (laughs) The way in which the user acquires Live Channel is another unique idea that hasn’t been seen before, isn’t it?

Yes, that’s right. When a user buys a copy of Jam with the Band, their game package will include a password. They will be able to download the Live Channel by entering this password on the Wii Shop Channel.

Now, I hope you don’t mind if I change the subject. The development of Jam with the Band ended up taking quite some time, didn’t it?

There were some issues. Just as we were applying the finishing touches to the software, some of us who were working on Jam with the Band had to go and work on other projects…

But even though you were working on other projects, the team never lost their motivation. Why was that?

We had a carrot.

A carrot?

The idea of: “When we finish this work, we can do Jam with the Band” was always dangled in front of us like a carrot.

(laughter)

Because we had that carrot, we were able to fully apply ourselves to the other work, and do our best to finish it.

Absolutely, it really was like a carrot. Jam with the Band was a really fun game from a development point of view, too, and I loved working on it more than any other project. As such, even when the team was separated and we were working on different projects, we were always sending each other ‘Jam with the Band Newsletters’ via email.

I’ve mentioned before how the development team seem to be such good friends. I’m sure playing all those Jam Sessions together helped you bond.

I completely agree.

Alright, it’s time for the final question. What kind of user would you like to see using the software? How would you like to see them use it?

There’s no particular type of person I’d like to see using the software; that’s why we’ve included so many different modes. I hope that karaoke-lovers enjoy Sing mode, and I hope that those who like writing music can make good use of Studio mode. Nothing would make me happier than to see Jam with the Band bringing people with different tastes together.

There are surely very few people who genuinely hate music. Whether it be singing, playing instruments, writing songs or just listening to music, there are so many ways to use Jam with the Band: “If you like music, there’s something for you in this software”. What about you, Kitahara-san?

I feel the same as Kitamura-san, I want all sorts of people to enjoy Jam with the Band, regardless of things like age or gender. Also, I’d love to see people who are able to connect to the Internet using their Wii downloading the Jam with the Band Live Channel. Users can enjoy Jam Sessions with their friends and family using just one copy of the software, so I hope everybody tries it out.

You could have a ‘Family Jam’, couldn’t you? And finally Kyuma-san, what do you think?

I play the trombone in the company orchestra. I’d like those who love games to buy Jam with the Band and experience the joy of playing instruments and playing music with your friends, not just in the software but also in real life. Conversely, I think that those who love music will be able to discover how much fun games can be through Jam with the Band.

Well, that’s it. Thank you very much for your time everyone.

Since we’ve got a little bit of time, let me ask you: What kind of twists and turns have there been since the development of Band Brothers started way back in the Game Boy era?

Well, at first we were planning to make a dance game. That kind of game was really popular at the time.

Why didn’t you end up making a dance game?

We couldn’t dance. Not a single one of us.

(laughter)

That wasn’t a very well thought-out plan in the first place, then!

I was originally a designer - I’d never made a single game before. After that, I calmed down and took a good look at the staff. I realised that there were people who were really into playing musical instruments. That’s when I thought: “Dancing is out, but we could maybe make a band game…”

…so, not having a clear goal in the first place naturally meant the project direction strayed.

I was really serious about it, though.

You wanted to unleash Barbara onto the world, after all… You thought you could combine your desire with the sound chip, and if dance games were no good, you could probably do something with a musical instrument game, right?

The idea was probably a bit simplistic… There wasn’t much storage space on the Game Boy Color’s cartridges, so we knew we couldn’t include all instrument sounds on one cartridge. We knew that we had to do something, so we came up with the idea of having a different cartridge for each instrument…

Another slightly simplistic idea… (laughs)

But it was that idea that people would be able to come together with different instrument cartridges to play Jam Sessions that was the origin of the Band Brothers concept. The development of the Game Boy Advance solved a lot of problems, and we were able to exhibit at the 2001 Tokyo Game Show…

At that time, you could only hear the instrument that you played yourself through your console speaker, so it became our mission to enable users to hear each other’s instruments. That’s why we had the idea of including a separate speaker in the game package. I thought that created a great visual impact…

Just looking at the software being presented really dazzled people. The development team – you included, Kitamura-san – would play and seem to be having so much fun. You went all around the company doing presentations, didn’t you?

Yes, and in order to strengthen the impact of these presentations there was a period during which we’d practise Jam Sessions in order to work out what kind of performances we should do. We’d also put on costumes before going out to perform.

You did a presentation in Yamauchi-san’s (President of Nintendo at the time) office, didn’t you?

All I remember about that is how nervous I was.

How did you feel when development was suspended?

It was a real shock… That’s why when you became President and sent that questionnaire around, Iwata-san, I had the mindset of, well, “a drowning man will clutch at a straw” as they say, and thought you had thrown a lifeline.

This questionnaire was something I sent by email to all Nintendo development staff because I wanted to know what everyone in the development department was thinking at the time. 99% of people responded dutifully to my questions, but there were some people who wrote at length about matters not mentioned on the questionnaire… Kitamura-san was one of these people. (laughs)

“Let us do Game Boy Music again!” was what I wrote.

It was a bit longer than that, if I recall… (laughs)

I really don’t think Band Brothers would have seen the light of day if it weren’t for that questionnaire. The title was your idea as well, Iwata-san.

Anyone can see the similarity to ‘Super Smash Bros.^*. I don’t think it would be allowed under normal circumstances. (laughs)

I remember thinking it would be nice if a lot of people felt close to the software and abbreviated it as BanBro.

I thought that the words Barbara and Banbro had a similar feeling, so I thought it was a great name.

How did Barbara come to be in the first place?

We didn’t want to create a conventional character. We wanted to create the kind of character that hadn’t been seen in previous Nintendo titles.

I see, so that’s why she’s got a bit of an edge to her. But now Barbara, the character that nobody wanted to use in a game, has appeared in other software titles apart from the original Band Brothers, such as this version of Jam with the Band and English Training.

Yes. I feel really grateful for that.

How did you decide on Barbara’s personality?

I first drew her with a simple ‘baddie’ image in mind, but when it came to her personality, it wasn’t just my creation. All the staff members contributed to making her the way she is. She’s also a really convenient character to have around. Whenever something goes wrong in the game, we can blame it on Barbara. It didn’t matter who wrote her lines, she’d always manage to make them her own. (laughs)

But when I wrote some text and sent it to Kitamura-san, when it came back it sounded just like Barbara.

Eh? I told you, I didn’t modify it at all.

Actually, when Kitamura san was so forceful in trying to bring this project to market, I did think she looked like Barbara’s double. She’s not usually like that, but there were times when she did seem possessed. (laughs)

If I were going to be possessed by something, I’d choose to be possessed by a Bubblegum Pop star!

(laughter)